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How important are Rudiments?
Extremely 88%  88%  [ 22 ]
Somewhat 12%  12%  [ 3 ]
Not Very 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Rarely 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 25
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 Post subject: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:05 am 
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I have noticed that in both RLRRLL posts and my posts, there are a slacking number of hits. I wonder now, what kind of intent do the drummers of UGW have towards rudiments. So, how important are rudiments to you?

Me...well I think you know my take on how important they are ;) . I am not nicknamed, "The Rudi-Master" for nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:08 pm 
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I voted extremely, but I have to admit, I don't spend enough time working on learning new ones. I pretty much
have just focused on the single and double stroke rolls, 6 stroke roll, paradittles and flams. It's not that I'm not
interested, it just takes some serious discipline and patience to learn them well. Maybe I need you and Tom to yell
at me a little.

Edit:
After checking your other post, I've been working on flam accents and drags not even knowing it. How sad is that!

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:12 pm 
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Although I voted Extremely, I like Scrogs don't spend nearly enough time on them. Most of what I play these days is pretty straight forward, but I should find the time to concentrate on them more. Maybe I too need some verbal abuse! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:15 pm 
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Alright, Bong and I are going to start the "Yell At Me For Not Practicing Our Rudiments Club", or YAMFNPORC for short.

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:20 pm 
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Count me in, Scrogs.

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:27 pm 
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Scrogs wrote:
Alright, Bong and I are going to start the "Yell At Me For Not Practicing Our Rudiments Club", or YAMFNPORC for short.

Priceless!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:50 pm 
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Brother_Bong wrote:
Scrogs wrote:
Alright, Bong and I are going to start the "Yell At Me For Not Practicing Our Rudiments Club", or YAMFNPORC for short.

Priceless!!!!!!!


Pronounced as follows: yam-F-N-pork

Who else is in?

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:35 pm 
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I picked somewhat. I think that single stroke, double stroke, and paradiddles can be extremely helpful for building hand control and practicing to get your technique down. But I personally am not that interested in playing rudiments around my kit. I think it's way too technical for the kind of drummer I try to be.

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:17 pm 
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possumofdestruction wrote:
I picked somewhat. I think that single stroke, double stroke, and paradiddles can be extremely helpful for building hand control and practicing to get your technique down. But I personally am not that interested in playing rudiments around my kit. I think it's way too technical for the kind of drummer I try to be.

And by kind of drummer...do you mean average? Or ignorant?

I'll be talking about this more in Part 3, which will be more about the theory and philosophy behind playing rudiments, but I'll step atop my soapbox for a minute. See, the thinking that you can just get by with the knowledge of a few rudiments is doing a disservice to yourself. Why would you want to deny yourself a greater understanding of your instrument?

When you practice rudiments, you really gain a fine sense of how you play and how the drums play back to you, enabling you to understand the how and why of your playing. See, I am much more impressed with a drummer who can tell me why they played the way they did, and not just shrug their shoulders and say something like, "Because I saw some guy on YouTube try it and it sounded cool." Or my favorite, "I don't know, because I felt like it." While I will not toss out personal feel and taste, because those are very important to your style, it is NOT a banner to fly when you cannot explain why you played a certain way. Trust me, we can tell when you are fibbing away your average drumming skills.

I would want someone to say, "Well, during the bridge, we switch up the rhythm, and to provide some cool fills in the back, I switched up the accents on a standard Flam Accent. So now, I can play some back support to the rhythm, but it still sounds interesting." There, the perfect explanation. And now, we can discuss different applications across the groove, and how did you play that chorus, and how do you and the bassist talk to each other through the music, and so on and so on. A much more engaging conversation, and it increases the respect for you, and opens up other avenues as well.

But hey, if you just want to stick with what you know, go ahead. I mean progress is just so 2009! Ick!

Homki890

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:20 pm 
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Scrogs wrote:
I voted extremely, but I have to admit, I don't spend enough time working on learning new ones. I pretty much
have just focused on the single and double stroke rolls, 6 stroke roll, paradittles and flams. It's not that I'm not
interested, it just takes some serious discipline and patience to learn them well. Maybe I need you and Tom to yell
at me a little.

Edit:
After checking your other post, I've been working on flam accents and drags not even knowing it. How sad is that!

PRACTICE YOUR DAMN RUDIMENTS!!!!

Brother_Bong wrote:
Although I voted Extremely, I like Scrogs don't spend nearly enough time on them. Most of what I play these days is pretty straight forward, but I should find the time to concentrate on them more. Maybe I too need some verbal abuse! :lol:

PRACTICE YOUR DAMN RUDIMENTS!!!!

Homki890

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:31 pm 
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THANK YOU SIR, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER? :!:

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:47 pm 
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Homki890 wrote:
PRACTICE YOUR DAMN RUDIMENTS!!!!

Homki890


The YAMFNPORC DRILL MASTER has been created and has spoken!

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:43 pm 
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I voted somewhat. One can get by without practicing rudiments, though I guess every drummer WILL practice at least his single strokes. :p

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:28 pm 
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Rudiments to a drummer -- any drummer -- are about as important as spelling and grammar are to a writer, a knowledge of spices are to a chef, and a understanding of DOS to a computer programmer.

You don't have to know this stuff to play drums, but you need to know thee things to be fully devolved player. Notice I did not say a "good" player....but a fully developed one. It's each persons choice as to how developed a player you wish to be.

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:40 pm 
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RLRRLL wrote:
Rudiments to a drummer -- any drummer -- are about as important as spelling and grammar are to a writer, a knowledge of spices are to a chef, and a understanding of DOS to a computer programmer.

You don't have to know this stuff to play drums, but you need to know thee things to be fully devolved player. Notice I did not say a "good" player....but a fully developed one. It's each persons choice as to how developed a player you wish to be.

This is pretty much what I was getting at, I couldn't quite find the words I were looking for though. :p

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:20 pm 
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You have made a very good point sir. But if an average drummer can play simple beats and have fun doing it would you say that he was ignorant? What if that's all that he desired? I think what you were saying is that you respect people more if they understand what they are doing? Because I totally agree with you. I was just saying that I, at this point in my career, am not too interested in putting tripple paradiddle flams into my fills. I still consider myself a beginner and the basics are good enough for me right now.

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:08 am 
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possumofdestruction wrote:
You have made a very good point sir. But if an average drummer can play simple beats and have fun doing it would you say that he was ignorant?

No...I'd call him an average drummer. An ignorant drummer is someone who writes off learning and practicing his rudiments for whatever reason.

RLRRLL wrote:
Rudiments to a drummer -- any drummer -- are about as important as spelling and grammar are to a writer, a knowledge of spices are to a chef, and a understanding of DOS to a computer programmer.

You don't have to know this stuff to play drums, but you need to know thee things to be fully devolved player. Notice I did not say a "good" player....but a fully developed one. It's each persons choice as to how developed a player you wish to be.

This is an excellent way to explain what rudiments are. I would add to the list, "Rudiments are to a drummer, what colors are to a painter." But Tom, I respect you bro and you know I do, but I do believe that yes you do Need these things to know how to play drums. Without them, what do you consider yourself? What would call a painter who couldn't tell red from green? Would you read a story by a writer who wrote, "I was awaked one moorning to the birds going chirp outside." I know I wouldn't.

Homki890

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:24 am 
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Quote:
Without them, what do you consider yourself?


I say a drummer who doesn't knowingly make use of the standard 40 Rudiments is a "non-rudimental" drummer. Just like a guitarist who plays blues, and knows nothing of classical finger picking, might still be a fine guitarist. It's a stylistic choice.

Note, I mentioned the idea of "knowingly using rudiments". I did a gig last night where I sat in with a band with only my marching snare drum -- improvising. I was using every rudiment in my vocabulary, but I can't tell you which ones. They were just flying out in an effort to play the groove that had been set up by the band. I wasn't thinking "Para-diddle, two flam taps, and a lesson 25!!" I have practiced this stuff enough that I can spit them out in order to play the rhythm I'm going for, no matter what rudiments are used.

Likewise, many drummers play rudiments without knowing what the names are, or the sticking's, just out of necessity. They are ignorant of the fact that they are playing a "Flamaque", but this does not necessarily make them "good" or "bad" players of music. Just untrained ones.

Ringo & Charlie Watts -- not a para-diddle between them!!


Having said all of that . . . the benefits of knowing the PASIC 40 far outweigh any benefit of not knowing them. I'll go to my grave preaching that.

t

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:57 am 
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RLRRLL wrote:
Note, I mentioned the idea of "knowingly using rudiments".


I love when a drummer says... "I don't need rudiments"... it makes my day.

I usually ask them to play me a groove that contains no rudiments, and when the hit the first beat I stop them and say... I said NO rudiments... You just played a single stroke.... try again!

You can't PLAY the drums without playing rudiments. So, how important are they? Well YEAH... how about ESSENTIAL?

Folks... you're playing rudiments... you can SAY you don't need them, but it's not true.

SO, since you're playing them, why not learn to play them well???

Will it KILL you to be GOOD at your instrument?

I once heard a drummer who should have known better make the comment "Rudiments are too restricting... they stifle my creativity"

Yeah dude, your so creative you figured out how to play without actually hitting the drum?

I don't practice them as much as I should... but I sure did when I was younger, and they pay dividends to this very day.

Having a working knowledge of rudiments doesn't stifle your creativity, it opens it up so you can easily play ANYTHING you can imagine, and THAT is very liberating
!

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 Post subject: Re: How important are Rudiments?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:10 am 
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Zen_Drummer wrote:
RLRRLL wrote:
Note, I mentioned the idea of "knowingly using rudiments".


I love when a drummer says... "I don't need rudiments"... it makes my day.

I usually ask them to play me a groove that contains no rudiments, and when the hit the first beat I stop them and say... I said NO rudiments... You just played a single stroke.... try again!

Though, I'm pretty sure anyone can play a simple rock beat without practicing his single strokes first. He'll be playing a rudiment unknowingly. By saying every stroke is a rudiment they become a necessity of course. I think what at least I mean by "unknowingly using rudiments" is that you haven't practiced them like one would practice rudiments. But one can still probably use different rudiments because our own intuition tells us how to achieve a certain sound that's playing in our head.

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