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 Post subject: Rudiment of the week - lesson proposal
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:16 pm 
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The corner stones of our chops - rudiments. We've all heard of them, some of us know them inside out (points at Kyle), most of have probably not explored them nearly enough.

What I am suggesting is a series of lessons, either weekly or every second week, where the whole forum/those interested can engage and focus on one rudiment at the time. A new topic for each lesson (ie. each rudiment), where the rudiment is first presented in its basic form. The execution is explained, if possible a link to a video where someone from for example vicfirth.com shows how it's done, then we move over to more interesting parts.

Applications. Most of us practice rudiments in 4/4, but what if you throw a paradiddle into 6/8, or even 9/8? That's just an example of the endless possibilities rudiments offer. Those of you who are trained in this field probably have little things you like doing, either as fills or as grooves.

Basically, an orgie of posting licks & videos ONLY related to the rudiment in question. Once a week is done we'll notate everything said down, include the links to videos mentioned or any audio material, and gather it into one PDF.

You get the concept even though I've cluttered it with practical suggestions. It would require some work, I will try my hardest to help with the technical stuff (although I firstly need to learn how to notate on the computer), but my knowledge of rudiments is very limited.

Tell me what you think.

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 Post subject: Re: Rudiment of the week - lesson proposal
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:19 am 
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I have lessons already written for this. Many of the guys that took lessons got my "Rudiments Demystified" handout.

I'd suggest go down the PASIC 40 in order, starting with that other post about single stroke rolls.

tc

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 Post subject: Re: Rudiment of the week - lesson proposal
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:26 pm 
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RLRRLL wrote:
I have lessons already written for this. Many of the guys that took lessons got my "Rudiments Demystified" handout.

I'd suggest go down the PASIC 40 in order, starting with that other post about single stroke rolls.

tc

Would you be willing to share of what you have along with the series?

Is this topic sparking anyone else's interest?

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 Post subject: Re: Rudiment of the week - lesson proposal
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:15 am 
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That sounds like a challenge!!

Since I finished the "Black Page" over the summer, deconstructing the Rudiments should make for a fun Winter Project.

Generally, when teaching the Rudiments, I break them into the 6 Groups as shown on the standard PASIC 40 Rudiments.

1. ROLL RUDIMENTS
A. Single Strokes
B. Multiple Bounce Strokes
C. Double Strokes
2. Diddle Rudiments
3. Flam Rudiments
4. Drag Rudiments

I like to show the underlying rhythm to each rudiment -- that is, the ARM MOVEMENT that is used for each sticking pattern. I find that understanding the bigger movements makes it easier to play the smaller ones with speed and ease.

Then we can explore ways to use each rudiment around the kit, in grooves and fills.

Should be fun!

tc

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 Post subject: Re: Rudiment of the week - lesson proposal
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:58 pm 
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The Standard PASIC 40 Rudiments in all their glory!!

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 Post subject: Re: Rudiment of the week - lesson proposal
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:06 pm 
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Cool!

I was hoping that there'd some excitement. I wonder if I'm the only one who would gain from the lessons. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Rudiment of the week - lesson proposal
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:21 pm 
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I see no mention of up or down strokes. Something i never understood is when we are first taught rudiments, were just learning L and R no upstrokes, downstrokes etc. For example the right paradiddle is a right downstroke, a left upstroke, right, right.
The patafla-fla is right flam (left, right downstroke), left upstroke, right, left flam (right, left downstroke).
the Flam Accent, right flam (left, right downstroke) left upstroke, right.
Surely anything worth learning is worth learning right. These up and down stroke help the rudiments to play themselves once you get a feel for them .why so often the sticking is taught yet the technique is not is something that always sort of baffled me.

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 Post subject: Re: Rudiment of the week - lesson proposal
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:58 pm 
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xDoSeOnEx wrote:
I see no mention of up or down strokes. Something i never understood is when we are first taught rudiments, were just learning L and R no upstrokes, downstrokes etc. For example the right paradiddle is a right downstroke, a left upstroke, right, right.
The patafla-fla is right flam (left, right downstroke), left upstroke, right, left flam (right, left downstroke).
the Flam Accent, right flam (left, right downstroke) left upstroke, right.
Surely anything worth learning is worth learning right. These up and down stroke help the rudiments to play themselves once you get a feel for them .why so often the sticking is taught yet the technique is not is something that always sort of baffled me.


Well, what you're talking about is a more advanced concept. One would have to know the sticking before applying the technique (pretty much the Moeller Method) described above. Also, it's much more difficult to try to explain these concepts in just in writing rather than in writing with an instructor who can show you the technique specifically, and then analyze what you do to make sure you are doing it correctly.

When I first started with school band lessons in 4th grade, the band teacher tried to explain what you've described, but let's just say that drums were not his primary instrument, and it didn't sink in. It wasn't until I started studying with a private teacher (who had coincidentally studied with Jim Chapin) that I was able to really grasp the concept.

It's a walk before you can run type of situation. It's difficult enough for many new players to memorize the stickings, let alone trying to apply a more efficient sticking method at the same time.

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 Post subject: Re: Rudiment of the week - lesson proposal
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:13 pm 
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I still need to learn so much.

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 Post subject: Re: Rudiment of the week - lesson proposal
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:31 am 
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xDoSeOnEx wrote:
I see no mention of up or down strokes. Something i never understood is when we are first taught rudiments, were just learning L and R no upstrokes, downstrokes etc.
Quote:



RLRRLL:
I would make a distinction between the sticking patterns and the techniques used to play those pattens. There is only one sticking for a para-diddle, but there are many grips to choose from and even more techniques for playing the stockings efficiently.



Quote:
Surely anything worth learning is worth learning right.
Quote:



RLRRLL:
I'd venture to say that there is no ONE RIGHT WAY to do any particular rudiment, only ways that work better than others. There are at least 3 or 4 valid ways to play anything, it just depends on which technique works best for the player.

Quote:

These up and down stroke help the rudiments to play themselves once you get a feel for them .why so often the sticking is taught yet the technique is not is something that always sort of baffled me.


Maybe you could provide a lesson on the subject?

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 Post subject: Re: Rudiment of the week - lesson proposal
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:33 am 
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Brother_Bong wrote:
I still need to learn so much.


Yo Bong, if you're really interested in learning a lot about different techniques, in addition to the great info that's available in this forum, I would recommend checking out Jojo Mayer's DVD "Secret Weapons for the Modern Drummer." It provides great descriptions of a variety of different techniques with some great production/camera angles as well as exercises for development. For a relatively small investment, you'll get a DVD that you can sit down with, with a pad and sticks and work on tons of great stuff. For someone who really wants to learn, it's a fantastic supplement to your regular practice.

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 Post subject: Re: Rudiment of the week - lesson proposal
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:07 pm 
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The first of my Rudiment Lessons is up here: The Single Stroke Roll
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2284

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 Post subject: Re: Rudiment of the week - lesson proposal
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:42 am 
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Sounds like a really good idea-I'd definitely benefit from it.

What if we have a whole new section of the forum dedicated to rudiments?
(just a suggestion, considering their importance and all.)
XD

But then it might be too redundant considering the technique topics and online lessons section. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Rudiment of the week - lesson proposal
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:42 am 
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I tried starting a thread about rudiment lessons. It never got any attention, or at least any replies. I think it's a great idea to give lessons over the forum about rudiments.

But don't get too good, or I'll have to start practicing harder. :lol:

Hey Tom, count me in to do some lessons.

And when it comes to the different type of strokes involved, it is interesting to note that EVERYTHING we do in drumming can be explained in strokes. Its how Matt Savage starts his book "Savage Rudimental Workshop." And everything he teaches is based off of that system, and it's mind-blowing.

Homki890

BTW, Dose, the strokes for a paradiddle is as follows: Downstroke on the RH, a tap on the left hand, a tap on the RH, and then the LH upstroke while the RH plays a tap. The the LH hits a downstroke, etc. If you put the upstroke at the LH hit, your stick will be up in the air for quite some time. As the paradiddles get faster, the upstroke become blended into the RH diddle.

Sorry, but I am a nut when it comes to that kind of thing. Lol, don't shoot me.

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