It is currently Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:43 am


Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 1   [ 8 posts ]
Author Message
 Post subject: The Long Roll
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:38 am 
Tama Player
Tama Player
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:06 am
Posts: 635
Location: Finland
So I've decided that I have to take my thumb out and start working on them rudiments. My flams are weak, and I don't know half of them.

My teacher gave me a paper with 13 rudiments from the Nation Rudimental Drummers Association. I know a few of them, and so far I'm enjoying myself (yay!). However, I'm not quite sure about the long roll. It's notated as a double stroke roll, only the second stroke of each hand is accented; l L r R l L r R and so on.

What is the goal of this rudiment? I'm not familiar at all with it. I struggled with the accents at first, but I believe that's just because I've been doing the accents the other way around. Perhaps the goal is to create a smoother double stroke roll by accenting the "off beats"?

Please enlighten me, thanks. :roll:

_________________
Tama Swingstar Kit (12", 13", 16", 14", 22")
Tama Roadpro Hardware
Paiste & Meinl cymbals
Remo/Aquarian/Evans


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Long Roll
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:21 pm 
2009 Educator of The Year
2009 Educator of The Year
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:25 am
Posts: 1501
Location: Long Beach CA USA
Section One of the PASIC 40 Rudiments Sheet covers ROLL RUDIMEWNTS.
This is further broken down into Single Stroke patterns and Double Stroke patterns.


Rudiment #1 is THE SINGLE STROKE ROLL

Image


The major limitation of a drum is that it only is capable of making one sound at a time. Each time the drum is struck, the length of sound is the same. If we want to produce a longer sound, we must strike the drum multiple times.

The Single Stroke Roll is used to play long rhythms, such as whole notes, half notes, and dotted quarter notes.

Notice that the Single Stroke Roll is written with 32nd Notes?
This is to show that the roll must be Non-Rhythmic. Similar to when a horn player plays a long tone across the bar “BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA”, and drum roll should be smooth and even. Accents can be added, but we first must be able to play a nice smooth bar of 32nd notes.

The Sticking pattern is Hand to Hand, RL RL.
It is advisable to practice starting with the Left hand also, LR LR.

Now, there is some debate over how fast a pattern of RL RL has to be before it can be called a roll. If we play RL RL any slower than 8 beats per second, it does not have that smooth, non rhythmic quality. At that point, the human brain can recognize each individual stroke, count them, subdivide them and organize them. Somewhere around 12- to 15 strokes per second, the RLRL pattern loses its “rhythmic qualities” and becomes a single, long sound. That is when the term “drum roll’ is appropriate. At the slower tempos, the RL RL sticking should be addressed by the name of the subdivision that fits that particular speed (8th notes, 8th triplets, 16th notes).

A common way to practice the Single Stroke Rolls is to start slowly, and gradually go through the different subdivisions until you reach the 32nd Note level.
It is advisable to count or play Quarter Notes as you do this.
Image


Drummers who are known for their singles:
Billy Cobham
Buddy Rich
Jimmy Chamberlin (Smashing Pumpkins)
Ian Paice (Deep Purple)
Thomas Lang
Carl Palmer

Please, add your own favorites to the list!

_________________
Tom Coyne

tomcoynedrums.com

Drummer/Teacher/Performer/Recording Artist/Author

Vic Firth Education Team

45 Grave/The Last Dance/Autumn Cannibals

DW & Ludwig Drums/Zildjian,Supernatural,Silken Cymbals
Vic Firth Sticks/Remo Heads


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Long Roll
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:53 am 
Tama Player
Tama Player
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:06 am
Posts: 635
Location: Finland
To get a nice smooth roll one should also make sure that both hands are playing at the same volumes. If you're right handed your right hand will often play louder and more relaxed than your left hand (or your weak hand). Vice versa for left handed players.

Here's perhaps the easiest way to apply the single stroke roll rudiment as a fill, everyone has heard it and probably now it, but here it is. :-D
Image
Courtesy of freedrumlessons.com

_________________
Tama Swingstar Kit (12", 13", 16", 14", 22")
Tama Roadpro Hardware
Paiste & Meinl cymbals
Remo/Aquarian/Evans


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Long Roll
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:06 pm 
2009 Educator of The Year
2009 Educator of The Year
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:25 am
Posts: 1501
Location: Long Beach CA USA
Here is that debate I mentioned earlier regarding RLRL stickings and "rolls".

The example the ELM posted, while being a fine exercise, does not make use of the Single Stroke Roll Rudiment. It's a bar of 16th notes, using hand to hand sticking. Many other stickings can be used to play that rhythm. At any tempo under 100 bpm or so, this example will not have the non-rhythmic quality of a "ROLL". It will be easily decipherable as 16th notes, or 4 notes per pulse.
Our brains can organize those sounds into groups of smaller notes.

As stated in my prior post, a Single Stroke Roll needs to be fast enough so that it all becomes one, even sound. This is why is written in 32nd notes.

Yes, I am nit picking here, but I believe that a thorough understanding of these patterns, and what they are built out of, helps in trying to play and use the 40 Rudiments.

Hope this helps clarify my thoughts on the subject.

tc

_________________
Tom Coyne

tomcoynedrums.com

Drummer/Teacher/Performer/Recording Artist/Author

Vic Firth Education Team

45 Grave/The Last Dance/Autumn Cannibals

DW & Ludwig Drums/Zildjian,Supernatural,Silken Cymbals
Vic Firth Sticks/Remo Heads


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Long Roll
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:15 pm 
Ludwig Player
Ludwig Player
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:14 pm
Posts: 3213
Location: austin texas
Gladstone technique really helps one along toward that "legato" sound, imo.

This is where you use the natural rebound to "throw" the stick back up into playing position. This creates a more relaxed-sounding stroke, as you really have to let the stick control its own destiny a little bit more. My opinion is that you get a little more length of tone out of the drum using this method.

of course, moeller, with its focus on the "up" stroke, can have a similar effect with some players, but I find the Gladstone stroke really makes for a nice smooth relaxed sound in my own single stroke rolls.

_________________
Image

Discovery is the ability to be puzzled by simple things. - Noam Chomsky

six7teen/I'm Gorgeous Inside/Powerhammer(solo)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Long http://www.unitedgrooveworkers.com/forum/postinRoll
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:54 am 
Subject Matter Expert - Rudimental Drumming
Subject Matter Expert - Rudimental Drumming
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:27 pm
Posts: 311
Location: Morristown, TN
EML, to answer your question about the accents in a double stroke roll, I will need you to try a little experiment.

Take out your pad, or drum, and sticks, and play a VERY slow double stroke. Now, when first played slow, you will be stroking everything. Now, try again, and this time I want you to bounce the second stroke, like you would if you were playing fast. The sound of that, at slow speeds is pretty good. They sound even, and you can control the bounce. Now, try playing that way faster and faster. I guarantee you that your rolls are going to be accented, or "pulsed." This is a very dirty and uneven sound.

To get the second stroke accent, you need to practice what's called Drop-Catch. In the thread where you posted your video and I gave you the very long post with photos, I posted a description and pics of the Drop-Catch. Go forth and learn.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1333

Now, the total point of the second-stroke accent is that at faster and faster speed, the accent will blend in to the diddle, but since it's on the back end of the figure, and not the front end where it's pulsed, the sound will be mush more consistent. It is achieved by the snapping of the fingers to hit the second-stroke accent. What it does is matches the volume and velocity of the first stroke, and thereby creates a sound exactly like the first, which equals into a (hold on while I calculate that on my TI-84 graphing calculator...) SMOOTHER AND MORE CONSISTENT DOUBLE STROKE ROLL.

Homki890

_________________
Growing old is inevitable; growing up, that's an option.
YAMFNPORC DRILL MASTER
Drum Line Instructor for North Greene High School in Baileyton, Tennessee
Percussion Director for the North Greene Indoor Percussion Ensemble


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Long http://www.unitedgrooveworkers.com/forum/postinRoll
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:29 pm 
DW Player
DW Player

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:23 pm
Posts: 798
Location: Oneonta, New York
Homki890 wrote:
EML, to answer your question about the accents in a double stroke roll, I will need you to try a little experiment.

Take out your pad, or drum, and sticks, and play a VERY slow double stroke. Now, when first played slow, you will be stroking everything. Now, try again, and this time I want you to bounce the second stroke, like you would if you were playing fast. The sound of that, at slow speeds is pretty good. They sound even, and you can control the bounce. Now, try playing that way faster and faster. I guarantee you that your rolls are going to be accented, or "pulsed." This is a very dirty and uneven sound.

To get the second stroke accent, you need to practice what's called Drop-Catch. In the thread where you posted your video and I gave you the very long post with photos, I posted a description and pics of the Drop-Catch. Go forth and learn.
http://www.unitedgrooveworkers.com/foru ... =11&t=1333

Now, the total point of the second-stroke accent is that at faster and faster speed, the accent will blend in to the diddle, but since it's on the back end of the figure, and not the front end where it's pulsed, the sound will be mush more consistent. It is achieved by the snapping of the fingers to hit the second-stroke accent. What it does is matches the volume and velocity of the first stroke, and thereby creates a sound exactly like the first, which equals into a (hold on while I calculate that on my TI-84 graphing calculator...) SMOOTHER AND MORE CONSISTENT DOUBLE STROKE ROLL.

Homki890



+1 I was going to say almost the exact same thing, you accent the second note so at faster tempos the roll sounds smooth!

_________________
"Monk encouraged me to emancipate the drums from their subservient role as timekeepers."
~ Max Roach


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Long http://www.unitedgrooveworkers.com/forum/postinRoll
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:28 am 
Tama Player
Tama Player
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:06 am
Posts: 635
Location: Finland
Homki890 wrote:
EML, to answer your question about the accents in a double stroke roll, I will need you to try a little experiment.

Take out your pad, or drum, and sticks, and play a VERY slow double stroke. Now, when first played slow, you will be stroking everything. Now, try again, and this time I want you to bounce the second stroke, like you would if you were playing fast. The sound of that, at slow speeds is pretty good. They sound even, and you can control the bounce. Now, try playing that way faster and faster. I guarantee you that your rolls are going to be accented, or "pulsed." This is a very dirty and uneven sound.

To get the second stroke accent, you need to practice what's called Drop-Catch. In the thread where you posted your video and I gave you the very long post with photos, I posted a description and pics of the Drop-Catch. Go forth and learn.
http://www.unitedgrooveworkers.com/foru ... =11&t=1333

Now, the total point of the second-stroke accent is that at faster and faster speed, the accent will blend in to the diddle, but since it's on the back end of the figure, and not the front end where it's pulsed, the sound will be mush more consistent. It is achieved by the snapping of the fingers to hit the second-stroke accent. What it does is matches the volume and velocity of the first stroke, and thereby creates a sound exactly like the first, which equals into a (hold on while I calculate that on my TI-84 graphing calculator...) SMOOTHER AND MORE CONSISTENT DOUBLE STROKE ROLL.

Homki890

Ah, thank you! This will receive some practice, can't wait to sound smother ;-)

_________________
Tama Swingstar Kit (12", 13", 16", 14", 22")
Tama Roadpro Hardware
Paiste & Meinl cymbals
Remo/Aquarian/Evans


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 1   [ 8 posts ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
twilightBB Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net