NOTE:" Before you go on reading this, I realize that different people like different sounds from their drums and that this formula may not apply to everyone. My endorsement of a ported bass drum head may not fit your style. And i post this under the assumption that if you're trying to record drums, you've already done all you can with head selection and tuning to make sure your drums sound good enough that someone would want to listen to them. I thought about taking this post down but I'm keeping it up because i wish I had read something like this when i first started recording. This certainly isn't an absolute formula for recording drums because I don't believe there is an absolute formula for any thing in music "

Hey guys, i thought i'd offer some advice about studio mics, particularly placement. I spent 35 hours in a recording studio it was my 4th time in a legit studio where all my drums and cymbals were sufficiently mic'd http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2 ... =504471882 ... mic's are always a chore with my drums. But this time i the studio was SERIOUSLY really nice, seriously top level. So i've finally been able to get an idea of what mics can do for drums, and how their placement affects the sound.

Snare mic's can affect your sound greatly. This was the first time i had a mic on top and bottom of my snare. It sounds much more lively, the dual mics pick up a lot more of the realistic sound of your snare. Only having a mic on your top head can give you a much more woody, non snare like sound which some people might like, others may not. I prefer the addition of the bottom mic because you'll end up with a much more clear and defined snare sound, rather than a dry woody sound.

Tom Mics, I actually have found that EQ-ing and compression can make almost any toms sound good haha. At the beginning of the weekend i was a little concerned that my high toms (and 8x8 and 10x10) were sounding a bit thin and jazzy which i dont want. But by the end of the weekend the engineer had slowly changed the EQ's and compression settings and what not, to give me the sound i wanted. Just make sure you're not using a bass drum mic on an 8 inch tom... or some other situation where a mic is clearly not being used for what it is best suited for.

Bass Drum mics... also another thing that isn't a huge factor, its more the man who mixes it than the mic. An AKG or AUDIX or a Shure mic is fine. I've also heard Nady's perform adequately as a bass drum mic.... so this isn't a HUGE issue either. Just make sure you have a whole in your resonant head that should be a given... im not sure why they even make drum heads with out the hole....

Cymbal mics... I've found that placement, and gain have the biggest affect here. Initially one would think pencil mics are best suited for this... but back in my early days I used SM 57's and they were fine as long as they weren't too close. Dont get them too close, and make sure they cover your whole cymbal scape, not too much focus in one area. As you would imagine 380 Sm81 mics will give you a cleaner sound than a cheaper mic... but you can get good sounds out of most mics... just dont put them too close. Although i did have a mic right on my high hats, we decided it was not necessary and that was cleaner with out it so we cut it out of the final mix.

ROOM MICS: This weekend was my first experience with Room Mics. These were placed about 10' away from my drums, about 8 feet off the ground, both mics (they used 2) were condenser mics.... the kind you'd see a vocalist recording on with a pop filter and everything. These had a HUGE effect on my cymbal sound and a little bit on my toms as well. Every time we were hearing play back and i'd hear a crash i liked or a Tom sound i liked, I'd ask the engineer what was different and he said he'd given me a little more room mics. So these apparently make a huge difference. These will only work if you're recording drums in a fairly large room... so i guess not everyone has access to the room mic sound, but if you can get it.... i could recommend using room mics!

Obviously, try to clean up your sound in the studio try not to click your sticks as you execute fills, avoid rims... and take it easy on the cymbals, you'll sound inexperienced if you're too loud or too busy on the final drum tracks. I've found that myself, and a lot of other drummers take it easy on the cymbals especially open high hat.

Thats all I got for now. Good luck! Again don't just take my thoughts at face value, I was recording tight drums where my toms can't ring for too long, my bass drum is more of a kick drum, my snare is reasonably right. Kind of a modern sound, for jazz or metal or some other genre you may need to adapt my advice to your needs. Again I realize this is not an absolute formula for recording, just some thoughts to get people rolling in the right direction.

I don't think it's absolutely necessary to have a hole in your reso head. Didn't John Bonham never have a ported reso?

HA! Good point. If anyone is rocking a 26 vista light bass drum and going for a 70s rock sound definitely dont worry about the port hole haha just make sure ya got those felt strips to help ya focus the sound LoL! Haha i feel a bit naive for posting such a thing but im going to leave it up because i think it does apply to many users of this forum, especially those who have been asking about mics and i feel live i've been seeing a lot of mic questions on here. My experience with non-ported bass drums has been very negative but i forgot that Bonham's signature sound was non ported. FML. haha

Did you go to Filers, Frigos or out of town? Any pics of the mic setup?

You should post your kit in the "Show Your Kit" thread Drum porn is always good.

I'm unsure why you decided to focus on the microphone aspect of recording. If you're recording at a facility as nice as the one you say you just worked in, with what sounds like a talented and/or experienced engineer, I would think that the mic choice would be of the least concern. Hopefully, the engineer know the room and the gear they use well enough to adequately choose the appropriate tools to make their job as efficient as possible.

Because of this, in a situation like the one you have described, I would think that one's focus should be more on how to make their drums sound as good as possible. Head selection and tuning are 2 of the biggest things I can be proactive with.

Regarding bass drums, I disagree with the non-ported bass drum comment. Ones choice of kick front head and tuning can play a very big roll in one's sound. While YOU prefer a ported head, the reason non-ported heads exist is because there are people that use/prefer them. I've worked with sound men who hate them and others who don't care. As long as they can capture the sound, then you're good to go.

Now, if you're doing the recording and engineering yourself, mic selection starts to make a bigger impact. In such a case, one should purchase the best tools one can afford to get the job done. I will agree that a substantial amount of manipulation can be done to drum sounds with EQ and compression, but that being said, I wouldn't recommend using a Beta 52 to record an 8" tom. Sure, you'll record a sound, but the amount of time you would have to put in EQ-ing to get it sounding like an 8" tom would probably be substantial. I'm not saying it can't be done, rather there are better tools for the job. If you have the resources to experiment with sounds, go crazy.

My only issue with your post in general is that the "advice" comes off more as a series of absolutes rather than suggestions. While pencil mics can certainly be preferable for capturing cymbal sounds, so can ribbon mics. There are so many factors at play when recording that the very idea of an absolute will really do nothing more than stifle potential creativity.

i guess these were my thoughts as well. i've always left things like mic selection and mic placement to the engineer. after all, that's his job. over the course of my career, i have never challenged an experienced engineer's decisions.

In terms of what works best in the studio for mics, many engineers will approach it the way yours did, but it's far from an absolute, and I'd even venture to say that I don't actually agree with much of what has been said in your post, as it applies to my experience.

My goal is to make the kit sound like ONE musical instrument, so I don't view the overheads as cymbal mics. I view them as the PRIMARY kit mics... this is a BIG difference!

My approach...

The drum kit is a musical instrument, played by a single human being, and I really try to convey that in the recording of this really complex instrument. That being said, here's how I make the whole mess sound like an actual human being playing an actual musical instrument...

Step one:
1) Overheads.

I find the best choice for these to be cardioid condensor mics of the pencil variety. You can place an XY PAIR of them on a single stand, crossed at about 90°-120° and placed to "hear" the entire kit. The reason I use this style of mic and this placement is that these microphones don't have the same proximity effect that standard dynamic mics have. A standard dynamic mic gets more bass the closer it gets to the source, and they "thin out" when they are picking up at a distance. Mics without this effect sound natural at a distance... a much better choice.

Place the overheads and make sure to spend some time listening to make sure they are picking up the entire kit relatively evenly. It's not at all hard to do when the mics are in the cross coincident pattern I described.

This pair of mics is going to do the BULK of the recording job and they will do a fine job of creating a natural "sound stage". The rest of the microphones are going to do everything in their power to mess up this already perfect sound stage!

With this critical pair in place, it's time to move on to Step Two:

2) The Kick Drum:

Lets stick with a Dynamic Microphone here... Why Dynamic? The very reason I shy away from dynamics for overheads is the primary reason to use them on the Kick Drum mic... Proximity effect! This bass boost is helpful in getting the satisfying "Punch", and since we're closely micing the kick, you can take advantage of this effect. Good choices for Kick mics are the Audix D-6, AKG D112 (Or D12 if you're lucky enough to have one, or have the coin to nab a vintage one, since it's no longer in production) and the EV RE20 (or PL20, same mic). Shure makes a number of kick mics, but I don't feed the Shure cartel and I don't know the model numbers, plus I've not heard one I liked yet.

If there is a hole in the kick, place the mic there, if there isn't, place the mic so it sounds like it's picking up the natural sound of the kick. Solo the mic and move it around, you'll hear what I mean!

Once the mic is placed, bring up your overheads in the mix and then slide the kick mic in... you're looking for it to sound balanced and natural. It's NOT time to EQ yet! Just make it sound natural.

Sounding good? Move on to step 3!

3) The ever mysterious SNARE MICROPHONE

Some say Dynamic is best, Others say Condenser... in ANY case it needs to be cardiod or hyper-cardiod. Personally I use an Audix i5 when using dynamic, some prefer the SM57... I also feel a pencil condenser like an MXL 603 (Mogami), MXL 551 (or 991), Joe Meek J27 or Oktava MK-02 will be great, especially on Jazz...

And where shall we place the single snare mic? On the bottom head, picking up the snare sound... the overheads will do a fine job of catching the general sound of the snare. The close snare mic is to add snare definition.

Because your bottom snare mic is physically out of phase with the overheads, you will need to electrically reverse the phase of this mic on your console. If your console lacks this ability, an inline phase reversal adapter will be needed.

Blend this mic with your Overhead/Kick mix until the snare becomes more defined, no more, no less. Again, we're not going to EQ yet.

Sounding like a drum kit yet... YOU BET! Move on to step 4

4) The Hi-Hat microphone
I use an Audix CXoneC-HC. This is a hypercardiod condenser mic, and it is just incredible for hi-hat due to its nearly complete lack of proximity effect and really tight hypercardioid pattern. This mic can be slightly above or slightly below the hi hat, but not in the "poof path". The "poof path" is the rush of wind that blows out of your hihat when you close it and trust me when I tell you, you'll know if you're in this zone.

Again, once the mic is placed to sound correct while in solo, blend it into your mix to bring up the definition of the hihat... don't go over the top, and again, we're not EQing yet.

5) Tom Toms
My Trick drums have MAY internal mics... I plug them in and dial them in, they are completely isolated from the room and they do a great job of adding a big tom tom sound without all the trouble of worrying whats going on around them. Most of you will lack this luxury, but the Dynamic Audix D-2 will do a great job of adding tom tom definition to your mix... If I can ever get the ZEN mics into production, the ZT is going to be a condenser mic designed for tom tom use, and I think it sounds pretty exceptional.

In any case, you're close micing the toms here, and this will be the first time you'll be applying eq before sliding it into the mix. Solo each mic and EQ it til you have the desired tone for each drum... don't make them TOO boomy (unless thats the sound you like, in which case go for it).

Dial in each tom mic until it adds the needed definition to the mix.

Once you have a FULL MIX, EQ your OVERHEADS to try to adjust the tone you're seeking... Alter the EQ of the kick AFTER you have pretty much nailed the sound with the EQ on the overheads... from hear, go for the "Mighty Kick Sound"... it will take less EQ than you think, if you've followed these instructions.

A thought on room mics...

If you have a GREAT sounding room... Mic the room. If you have a BAD sounding room... Mic the room anyway... you can always toss the Room tracks if they don't sound good. I like a Tube mic for this, currently I'm using a Karma in Omni pattern to pick up the room. I also have an Audio Technica boundary mic permanently placed in the studio for use as a room mic, it works very well without too many placement issues.

In my opinion, these room tracks should be dialed into the final mix and NOT be considered when setting up the close kit mics.

And ALL of this means nothing if you haven't prepped your kit to sound good in the first place. Heads in good condition are a must. Drums in TUNE are also a must. This ALL comes before micing the kit!

That's how I do it, it works well and the drum tracks sound extremely realistic and live. I've mentioned some pretty expensive mics along the way. A professional studio should have these or better, if they don't, you're in the wrong place!

Can this be done with cheaper mics? Yes... though your results will vary! The "concept" here remains the same, I've seen this done with a slew of cheap mics, and it still works well. The MOST critcal mics are the overheads. If you get your hands on a decent matched pair (Even Behringer C2s... less than 100 bucks for the pair) you can use NADY SP3s (20 bucks each, or less) for the rest of the kit!

This post is not in any way supposed to say that what Benson has posted is "wrong". We simply don't do it the same way.

^^^^
I think I just had a religious experience...either that or my...nevermind

I cant wait to see and experience the studio, Mike. I wonder how much a commuter flight from UNV to ROCH would be

interesting point on the snare mic, zen. I sometimes use both top and bottom mics, but I've never used just a bottom mic. that makes a lot of sense, though.

as for phase reversal, if your console doesn't do it, remember that many audio software multitrack apps can reverse phase "inside" the software. I know Cubase/Nuendo does this.

I don't remember whether sound forge can reverse phase or not, but I'll look to see whether it can later today. I seem to remember it having this capability. If sound forge does it, you could then take that wav file and plug it into whatever audio app you're mixing down with.

I like SM57's as snare mic's. Been using them for years.

One thing I'd like to mention: Sennheiser 421 mic's. Best sounding tom mic I've ever experienced. As well, SM57's give a nice fat tone.

For bass drum, I like AKG D112's. I'm VERY used to how they sound with my bass drums, and can get a good sound quickly.

For overheads, I have a pair of Stapes small-diaphragm condensers.

Figured id chime in here with a little trick i learned in my audio production class to fatten up a bass drum in the mix. First you create an AUX track. then you take your kick drum track and assign it to a send in your daw. next on your aux track add a signal generator insert and a noise gate insert. Set the signal generator to be a sine wave with a low frequency (somewhere in the 40-80 hz range) then set the key input in the noise gate as the send that you assigned the kick drum track too. After this is done you just adjust the volume of your noise gate so that it opens every time the kick drum is hit. What does this do???? This adds a super low frequency sound to the kick drum every time it is hit which really does wonders for a kick drum that's getting lost in the mix or just lacking some low end!!!

The thing with the top/bottom snare configuration, for me anyway, is that it creates gobs of phase/time alignment issues on the kit, making it sound "phasey" which is cool, but really hard to control. The bottom mic being out of phase with the top mic is easy to deal with... but that top mic having an arrival time, dead nuts in phase with the overheads, yet in a different time zone if you will, that creates the issue for me. As the top mic gets dialed in you can hear it sucking the life out of the instrument and this mic is the one that makes the whole kit start sounding like a bunch of stuff instead of one big thing. I suppose you could bucket brigade the thing in a shift register/time delay for a couple miliseconds, but seriously, why bother when the overheads catch the sound of the drum just fine?



Most of the top level software will do this just fine.



They are great for the application and pretty much interchangeable with the i5. On the underside of the drum they work well too.

My MAY internals are based on the SM 57, I love 'em. (I don't love Shure, but I love what Randy May does with them)

The 421 is a KILLER mic for toms... the price is WAY out of reach for many guys and it can be a real bear to place on the kit.



The D112 was my mic of choice for a long time... I have the MAY internal D112 and it's great. The D6, for my taste is actually easier to dial in, and that's saying a lot considering how many years I used and swore by the D112. It took me a while to even consider the D6, but when we did Drum Road Trip, ZORO and Johnny Rabb required Audix on their riders and AUDIX provided support by sending me a set to use... I had no intention of buying them, but when I used them, it was a done deal... I called up Cliff at AUDIX and bought them on the spot!



Do you have a pair of pre-Avenson Stapes, or production Avenson STO-2s? Living where you do, you might just be lucky enough to have the early version... I've heard amazing things about those, but haven't been lucky enough to get my hands on a pair. I have used the production model Avenson's and they are simply amazing for the money! I don't usually use omni mics on overheads, but those are exceptional and really natural sounding mics... I'll bet they sound great in that application.

God I need to read this more...... just dont have the time now!! Grrrrrrrrr. Tons of great info and I deffinately want to give some insight as well.

Mine are the original Stapes version. Had them since the 90's. I don't remember what I paid for them, but it was ridiculously cheap. Natural, indeed. They're so transparent sounding. You could use just the overheads and the kick mic and get a really good drum sound.

I found out about them through a mag I used to get, Tape Op. I HIGHLY recommend anyone interested in learning how to record get a subscription. It used to be free, not sure at this point. I know they have a web presence.

For room mics, if I have the tracks to spare, I like using 2 large diaphragm condensers several feet out (as far as possible), at the "corners" of the kit's soundfield, faced at 45 degree angles, about chest-high.

Also, I like using 2 mics if I'm recording with a bass drum with an unported front head. one on the batter, one on the rezo. picked this up from Jack DeJohnette.

<hip-mo-tizing voice>
Yooooou are getting VERRRRRRY sleeeeeeepy....
Yooooou are feeeeeeeling your eyes getting verrrrrrrrrrrrry heavy....
Yooooou are relaxed and resting....
Yooooou don't neeed those microphones....
Yooooou don't like those microphones.....
Yooooou want ZEN to have them...
Yooooou want to make sure ZEN is VERRRRRRRRRRY happy....
Put the microphones in a box....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
Mail them to ZEN....
When I count to three (in 5/4 time) you will awaken....
Yooooooou will remember nothing

ONE
REST
TWO (on three)
REST
THREE (on five)
</hip-mo-tizing voice>

Hey buddy... what's shakin?

Ummmm... WHAT Microphones?

But seriously... wanna trade something for them?

I would never trade them or sell them. I have sentimental attachments that go way beyond their dollar value...plus I've seen how much the Avenson versions go for.

I pretty much bring them along to any session I do.

They occasionally pop up around here. If I see a pair for sale I will contact you with any info IMMEDIATELY.

Austin is the ONLY place they pop up used... They came from there!

Avenson pairs are $550.00... pretty fair actually... but I want the real ones.

I'll keep my eyes open for you.

Not to mention they have that very inconveniently placed quick release switch on the bottom where it attaches to the mic clip that makes them REALLY easy to accidentally drop when you're just trying to grab the mic to adjust it. I find that they sound really great on my toms, which are 14, 16, and 18 inches in diameter. They do a really nice job of capturing the sound of them. I've used one on a kick before, and they were pretty well for that too.

yeah, they're huge, and expensive. but ogod they sound GOOOOOOOOOD.

I used a rough version of the "Zen Overhead Mic Technique" last night at while recording at a radio station. they only had a few mics (Shure 58's) and this place was not set up for live recording. I'm glad I had read Zen's post -- it really cam in handy.